Shloka 23
Śrī–Indra–Bali Saṃvāda: The Departure and Fourfold Placement of Lakṣmī
दृश्यमाने विनाशे च प्रत्यक्षे लोकसाक्षिके । आगमात् परमस्तीति ब्रुवन्नपि पराजित:
dṛśyamāne vināśe ca pratyakṣe lokasākṣike | āgamāt paramastīti bruvann api parājitaḥ ||
毗湿摩说：“当毁灭之相直接可见，举世皆为其证，而仍有人—凭借经典权威作依止—主张在显见之外尚有至上实在（或自我）存在，怀疑者便判其为败者；因为此说似乎违背了世间共同的经验。”
भीष्म उवाच
Educational Q&A
The verse frames a classic epistemic conflict: skeptics privilege direct perception (pratyakṣa) and public experience (loka-sākṣika), and therefore claim victory over anyone who argues for a reality beyond the body on the basis of scripture (āgama). Bhīṣma is highlighting how arguments for the ātman or a ‘supreme’ principle can be challenged when they appear to contradict common observation.
In Śānti Parva’s post-war instruction, Bhīṣma discusses dharma and philosophical viewpoints. Here he articulates how a nāstika (skeptical/denialist) would argue: since bodily death is directly seen and universally witnessed, scriptural claims of a distinct self beyond the body are dismissed as losing against worldly experience.